hub Forums ASIA 1111: Innocence (GITS 2) Ghost in the Shell 2?

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  • #872
    Figal-sensei
    Keymaster

    The proper title of this film is “Innocence” and yet is is popularly referred to as “Ghost in the Shell 2.” How is it a sequel of Ghost in the Shell? How does it stand alone distinct from Ghost in the Shell?

    #877
    Brandon Kim
    Participant

    Innocence explores ideas similar to those in Ghost in the Shell. In the first film, Major Kusanagi questioned her own existence as a human, whether she truly was one or not in world where the distinction between man and machine is blurred. Innocence continues to flesh out what makes a human human, but it explores humanity through dolls rather than cyborgs and data life forms (P 2501). Batou deals with crimes commited by gynoids, which are “dolls” with souls of humans. Again, Innocence explores the idea of a ghost in a shell, but the shell is different so as to provide a slightly different perspective.

    #882
    toddcs
    Participant

    Personally, I think that the only connection the film has to GITS 1 are a few forced comments and then appearance of Kusanagi in the climax of the film. Plot wise, there are no direct connections between the two, and it instead seems like the director is poorly attempting to connect the two, while telling an entirely different story. However, there is some connection in the entire theme of a shell, or the dolls that continue to arise from the Locus Solus syndicate. Other than this, there doesn’t appear to be any direct correlation from the two stories, it is just a world in which stories regarding puppets, ghosts/shells, and dolls are much easier to tell due to the background of the films.

    #884
    Josh
    Participant

    The only thing that makes it a sequel is that they share characters and a message about humanity. The main characters are in different roles now. For example, Major was the main protagonist in the first movie, but in “Innocence” she barely has any screen time, and Batou went from a supporting role to the main protagonist. The plots of the movie are also unrelated. Besides a couple references to the Majors disappearance, there is nothing from the first movie that you need to know to watch the second one. In fact, if you did watch the second movie before seeing the first, you would just think of the Major as a person of Batou’s past that was important to him. You might be left with a few questions about her due to her actions towards the end of the movie, like how she took over the body of a doll, but nothing that you couldn’t just make up to satisfy your need for understanding. “Innocence” isn’t a continuation of story, it is a new story with a continuation of characters and meaning.

    #892
    glorworm
    Participant

    What makes Innocence a sequel to Ghost in the Shell is very surface level. The movie exists in the same world as Ghost in the Shell and shares the same main characters however this is the extent to how much of a sequel innocence is. Innocence for the most part is stand alone in the sense that its plot is completely independent of the first movie. Batou is solving the gynoid mystery and somehow Kusanagi is shuffled into the movie despite being mysteriously “missing” for a long time. However, Innocence does not rely on the plot of the first movie to move its own plot. At the very most, Innocence builds off the ideas of what it means to be human but it focuses more on doll like robots as opposed to cyborgs that are extremely similar to humans.

    #894
    Mason
    Participant

    The main connections between Innocence and Ghost in the Shell are that they take place in the same world and have many of the same characters. Additionally, they both focus on the lives of cyborgs in this world and the lives they live. Although they both focus on this, they focus on different aspects of the lives. In Ghost in the Shell it focuses on how the cyborgs differ from the humans. This is shown by Kusanagi’s constant reflection on herself and if she is who she thinks she is, and 2501’s desire to reproduce and die in order to feel fully human. Innocence instead shows the how the cyborgs are still human. It shows the compassion that they feel towards their family and other characters. This is seen various times, but one of the most obvious is through Batou’s dog. Batou loves this dog more than anything, even to the point of putting himself in danger in order to get the food he loves. This shows that even the cyborgs can have love and compassion towards others. Although the two movies are similar, and Innocence could be seen as a sequel, they focus on different aspects and are vastly different to the point of being separate entities.

    #899
    MaliaL
    Participant

    I think Innocence acts a sequel to Ghost in the Shell in many ways, not necessarily where the 2nd movie continues the the plot of the first, but there is definitely a link between the two movies. Most obvious is that they contain many of the same characters, in the same world, in a later time than when the first movie occurred. The second movie even further develops themes that appear in the first. Other than the fact that the plot of Innocence is not a continuation of the one in Ghost in the Shell, I think it fits the role of a sequel.
    Expanding on already established themes is one the more important elements. Innocence further develops this question of what makes us human, a question critical to the plot of both movies. The way the characters deal with this question is ultimate what sets the movies apart, as Ghost in the Shell focuses on the Major’s questioning of her existence, while in Innocence Batou seems secure in his existence and uses his own belief of humanity to “save the world” from those who don’t understand. Batou uses quotes to sort of preach his ideas, and often flips a perspective of a situation to show other characters their way isn’t the always the right (for example at the end when Batou is sad for the dolls who had souls forced into them, much to the horror of the little girl who didn’t want to become a doll).

    #903
    seoa
    Participant

    Besides the obvious continuation of the characters and the setting, the two movies are very similar in their continued exploration of the meaning of “life” and “humanity.” Although Innocence strays from the original as it focuses more on robots over cyborgs, I feel the extension is organic and interconnected. Both continue the examination of the relationship between the mind and the body; whereas the first focuses its discussion on the existence of the “ghost,” the second foregoes the topic of ghosts and instead focuses on puppets and dolls. Innocence is partly a departure from the first movie in that the first movie seemed to suggest that the mind held precedence over the body, whereas the second suggests that mind and body are equal entities, and should be equally respected.

    #904
    jeanwu
    Participant

    I think that the “Ghost and the Shell” and “Innocence” are films that could stand alone and that one could understand the film without first watching “Ghost in the Shell.” There are connections between the two through a few of the characters, but nothing that you would not be able to figure out without watching the previous movie or lose meaning from. The two movies are definitely connected thematically through their questioning of gender and humanity. “Ghost in the Shell” raises questions about what exactly is a soul and whether one is a human if the only thing that remains of you is your brain. Innocence expands on this topic of humanity in comparison to dolls, animals, and technology/machines.

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