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Do your best to explain the context, meaning, and purpose of this exchange between Major Kusanagi and Batou:
Major: “Maybe all full-replacement cyborgs like me start wondering this. That perhaps the real me died a long time ago and I’m a replicant made with a cyborg body and computer brain. Or maybe there never was a real “me” to begin with.”
Batou: “You’ve got real brain matter in that titanium skull of yours. And you get treated like a real person, don’t you?”
Major: “There’s no person who’s ever seen their own brain. I believe I exist based only on what my environment tells me.”
Batou: “Don’t you believe in your own ghost?”
Major: “And what if a computer brain could generate a ghost and harbor a soul? On what basis then do I believe in myself?”
Batou: “Bullshit! I’ll see for myself what’s in that body. With my own ghost!”
In this scene, Major seems to be contemplating the basis of humanity and, therefore, whether or not she was ever human. The Major is wondering if she was ever human before becoming a cyborg. As seen earlier, memories can easily be implanted in someone and they are none the wiser, so how can she know that the memories she has are hers from a time when she was human. Batou insists Major has real brain matter, but it isn’t something she can see. She knows what she is told, but just because someone says she was once human doesn’t mean that it’s true. But what does it mean to be human? Batou seems to imply that since she gets treated like a real person, she must have a ghost. This ghost represents what makes one human: self-consciousness, emotion, etc. Major questions this outlook. If a computer was able to develop this “ghost,” could she not do the same without having been human? Then, would one having this ghost be considered to have been and therefore be human? If so, then a computer that generates a ghost could be thought as human without having been one, and if that can happen then Major could indeed never have been human to begin with while still thinking herself human due to her false memories and everyone telling her she was once human.
Like what Josh said, the important takeaway from this dialogue is that Kusanagi can never really know if she was ever truly human. Though told that she has a partially human brain, she can’t prove that. This is much like the fact that she can’t prove that any of her “human” traits are really hers. From the memories she may have of what she once was, to her consciousness, many things about her are perceived as being uniquely human. However, if a cyborg mind, or a superior AI could replicate these thoughts, and transplant them in her, would they really be human thoughts? Our discussion on the first day of class led us to pointing out some traits that we thought made one human. But if those traits are artificially created, does that make them less human? Kusanagi is reflecting on the fact that we link humanness to certain qualities that we think only humans possess. However, if a cyborg has these qualities can’t they be human? Oshii seems to be asking the audience where the cutoff for being human really is for a cyborg.
In the dialogues, Kusanagi begins to question the existence of her ghost. Compared to Batou, Kusanagi is a complete cyborg, whose body mechanisms are totally taken over by machines and data. Thus, Kusanagi naturally thinks herself as a being who dwells in the limbo between machine and human: the electronic parts within her perfectly formulate emotions, logic, and self-consciousness that should exclusively belong to human beings. However, no matter how true these traits seem to be, they are after all simulated. In another angle, all the elements that can prove Kusanagi as a “human” have the possibility to be faked and fabricated, since she receives information through her electronic sensors, which could derive false memories and experiences that constitute Kusanagi’s past. Here, Oshii leads the audience to contemplate a crucial question: what distinguishes men from cyborgs? What is the exact meaning of “ghost?”
The purpose behind this exchange is to fully solidify what it means to be a mediated human, as opposed to a complete technological being. Kusanagi states that a robotic brain could create a consciousness, but according to Batou, this would never truly be human, to be human, a real brain that has had a history, whether that history is remembered or not, and therefor this humanity is based off of past. No matter what sentience a conscious might believe it has, if it doesn’t contain a history of some kind, anything to link it to humanity, then the consciousness would never truly be on the same level as that of a human.
I think everyone above has put it very well: In this scene, Kusanagi brings up the question of whether not she was actually ever human. When you are mostly made of mechanical parts, it’s easy to question what defines a human since that’s such a nuanced question. Kusanagi still feels emotions we define as human such as anxiety, depression, and fear. She still gets treated like a human as Batou says. As she doubts this, Batou insists that she is human because she has real brain matter, but Kusanagi questions this because she’s never actually seen her brain before. She’s trying to analyze an abstract question scientifically, which Oshii implies is something that can’t really be done.
In this exchange, we see Major begin to doubt her humanity. She has a fully cyborg body and what remains of her old self is her brain. The only thing that allows her to believe that there is a real her is based off of her own belief that she is human and from what others tell her. The possibility that a ghost can be generated from a technological program causes her to consider this idea that she herself could be just a machine. Oshi uses this conversation to get us to think about the concept of humanity and what makes a human a human. This question of where the line should be drawn with the use of technology is especially important in our society that has such a big focus on technology.
The word “ghost” implies death. Traditionally, for there to be a ghost, a person has to die and a ghost forms from their disembodied soul. In this movie, however, the ghost is seen as the soul of the human that occupies the cyborg, implying that the creation of a cyborg requires the “death” of the human that created it. Previously, Kusanagi believed that her possession of a ghost made her a “human.” However, after recognizing that memories can be artificially created, and now maybe even ghosts could be created, she begins to question her entire reality and existence. This scene makes us question the stringent lines we place in order to define ourselves as “human,” and asks us how we would define our realities if those lines were all broken down.
This scene talks delves into the idea of how human the cyborgs actually are what, if anything, makes them human. Kunsanagi is wondering just how human she actually is. Although Batou ensures her that she is still human based on how she is treated and the fact that she has actual brain matter, she is unsure since she is unable to see her own brain. Simply based on what her experiences tell her, she sees no difference between her and a robot that has the ability to create memories and its own consciousness. This is seen with 2501 as although he is not human, he has his own consciousness and memory. This scene helps solidify the idea within the lines between human and robot are blurred to the point of nonexistence.
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